The Great Sibling Showdown - Showdown #1: Should Zoos Exist

PODCAST 261: THE GREAT SIBLING SHOWDOWN

DEBATE:  SHOULD ZOOS EXIST?

RELEASE DATE: SUNDAY, JANUARY 7TH, 2024

D:  HELLO, AND WELCOME TO THE VERY FIRST EPISODE OF CURIOUS KID PODCAST PRESENTS:  ***THE GREAT SIBLING SHOWDOWN***.  MY NAME IS JACOB, AND I HAVE TWO KIDS THAT ABSOLUTELY LOVE TO ARGUE, I MEAN, THEY ABSOLUTELY LOVE EACH OTHER, AND THEY DO ARGUE FROM TIME TO TIME.  YOU MAY ALREADY KNOW MY ADORABLE KIDS.  FIRST UP, THERE’S OLIVIA.

O:  HI EVERYONE.  MY NAME IS OLIVIA, AND I’M 10 YEARS OLD.  SINCE I WAS 4, MY DAD AND I HAVE RECORDED HUNDREDS OF EPISODES OF CURIOUS KID PODCAST, GETTING CURIOUS ABOUT ALL SORTS OF TOPICS.  I LOVE LEARNING, PLAYING SOCCER AND BASKETBALL, PLAYING THE PIANO AND TRUMPET, AND OF COURSE PODCASTING.  

D:  NOW, SINCE THIS IS CALLED ***THE GREAT SIBLING SHOWDOWN***, THAT MUST MEAN THAT THERE MUST BE A SIBLING SOMEWHERE AROUND HERE.  OH, HERE HE IS.  NEXT UP, THERE’S NOAH.

N:  HEY EVERYBODY.  MY NAME IS NOAH, AND I JUST TURNED 7 YEARS OLD.  I’VE APPEARED IN A FEW EPISODES OF CURIOUS KID PODCAST, AND IF YOU ASK ME, THOSE WERE THE VERY BEST EPISODES, AM I RIGHT?  ANYWAY, I ENJOY PLAYING AND WATCHING SOCCER, PLAYING THE PIANO, PLAYING ROBLOX, AND EATING FRENCH FRIES.  

D:  THANKS, KIDDO.  IN EVERY EPISODE OF ***THE GREAT SIBLING SHOWDOWN*** (I LOVE THAT SOUND EFFECT)… ANYWAYS, IN EVERY EPISODE OF ***THE GREAT SIBLING SHOWDOWN*** (OKAY, THAT SOUND EFFECT ISN’T NECESSARY EVERY TIME I SAY ***THE GREAT SIBLING SHOWDOWN***, -SIGH-).  HOW ABOUT THIS?  IN EVERY EPISODE OF THIS PODCAST, OLIVIA AND NOAH ARE GOING TO DEBATE ABOUT A DIFFERENT TOPIC.  THEY WILL EACH PICK A SIDE AND TRY TO CONVINCE YOU THAT THEY’RE RIGHT.  HERE’S THE BEST PART, AS SOON AS YOU’RE DONE LISTENING TO THIS EPISODE, YOU CAN VOTE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.  I’LL LET YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO DO THAT AT THE END OF THE EPISODE.  AND THEN, IN THE NEXT EPISODE, WE ARE GOING TO SHARE THE RESULTS OF THE VOTE WITH YOU SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT ALL THE LISTENERS THINK.  THE DEBATE TOPIC FOR THIS WEEK:  SHOULD ZOOS EXIST?

***INTERLUDE***

HERE ARE THE RULES FOR THE DEBATE.  FIRST, I’M GOING TO INTRODUCE THE TOPIC, THEN THERE WILL BE THREE ROUNDS OF DEBATE.  OLIVIA IS GOING TO ARGUE THAT ZOOS SHOULD EXIST, AND NOAH IS GOING TO ARGUE THAT THEY SHOULD NOT EXIST.  IN ROUND ONE, OLIVIA WILL HAVE TWO MINUTES TO EXPLAIN WHY SHE THINKS THAT ZOOS SHOULD EXIST, THEN NOAH WILL HAVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME TO REACT TO ANYTHING SHE SAID.  THEN, IN ROUND TWO, NOAH WILL START THINGS OFF AND MAKE HIS CASE FOR WHY ZOOS SHOULDN’T EXIST, THEN OLIVIA WILL GET A CHANCE TO COMMENT ON WHAT HE SAYS.  FINALLY, OLIVIA AND NOAH WILL EACH HAVE ONE MINUTE TO MAKE THEIR FINAL CLOSING REMARKS TO TRY TO CONVINCE YOU THAT THEY ARE RIGHT.  THEN, IT’S GOING TO BE ALL UP TO YOU, OUR AMAZING LISTENERS, TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK AND SETTLE THIS DEBATE ONCE AND FOR ALL:  SHOULD ZOOS EXIST?

THAT MIGHT SOUND LIKE A STRANGE QUESTION, RIGHT?  CHANCES ARE, YOU’VE BEEN TO A ZOO BEFORE.  OUR FAMILY USED TO HAVE A MEMBERSHIP TO THE PHILADELPHIA ZOO, AND WE WOULD VISIT THE ZOO SEVERAL TIMES A YEAR.  BUT, WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THE HISTORY OF ZOOS, AND IF YOU CONSIDER HOW SOME ZOOS OPERATE TODAY, THE QUESTION OF WHETHER ZOOS SHOULD EXIST BECOMES A REALLY GOOD ONE.

ZOOS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, DATING BACK TO ANCIENT EGYPT AND MESOPOTAMIA.  THE EARLIEST ZOOS WERE CALLED MENAGERIES.  MENAGERIES WERE COLLECTIONS OF EXOTIC ANIMALS KEPT BY KINGS AND EMPERORS.  THE ANIMALS WERE USUALLY GIVEN TO ROYALTY AS A GIFT, AND THE MENAGERIE ITSELF WITH ALL OF THE EXOTIC ANIMALS, WERE A SHOW OF POWER AND WEALTH.  IN THE 8TH CENTURY, EMPEROR CHARLEMAGNE OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, RECEIVED GIFTS FROM MONARCHS OF AFRICA AND ASIA THAT INCLUDED EXOTIC ANIMALS LIKE ELEPHANTS.  

IN ENGLAND, WILLIAM THE CONQUEROR HAD A COLLECTION OF ANIMALS AT WOODSTOCK MANOR THAT WERE PASSED DOWN TO HIS SON, HENRY THE FIRST.  THE COLLECTION GREW UNTIL IT INCLUDED CAMELS, LEOPARDS, LIONS, OWLS, AND A PORCUPINE.  THEN A WHITE BEAR WAS GIVEN AS A GIFT FROM NORWAY AND AN ELEPHANT AS A GIFT FROM FRANCE.  NOT MUCH THOUGHT WAS PUT INTO HOW TO SAFELY KEEP SUCH A DIVERSE COLLECTION OF ANIMALS.  ONCE AGAIN, THE COLLECTIONS WERE MORE A SIGN OF POWER FOR ROYALTY, JUST LIKE A MAGNIFICENT MANSION.  THE WELLBEING OF THE ANIMALS THEMSELVES WAS NOT A TOP PRIORITY.

IT WASN'T UNTIL THE 18TH CENTURY, ABOUT A THOUSAND YEARS AFTER THE EARLIEST MENAGERIES WERE CREATED, THAT MORE MODERN ZOOS THAT WE KNOW TODAY CAME TO EXIST.  THAT’S ALSO RIGHT AROUND THE TIME WE STARTED TO USE THE WORD ZOO, SHORT FOR ZOOLOGICAL GARDEN, TO DESCRIBE A COLLECTION OF ANIMALS.  DURING THIS TIME, ZOOS WERE CREATED MOSTLY FOR STUDYING THE ANIMALS FOR SCIENTIFIC PURPOSES AND FOR THE PUBLIC TO VISIT.  THE FIRST SUCH ZOO WAS THE LONDON ZOO, WHICH OPENED IN 1828.  WITHIN THE NEXT 50 YEARS, OTHER SCIENTIFIC ZOOS OPENED IN DUBLIN, IRELAND, AS WELL AS IN NEW YORK AND PHILADELPHIA.  

MANY OF THE MODERN ZOOS PUT MORE FOCUS ON MAKING SURE THE ANIMALS ARE GROUPED PROPERLY, WHICH IS WHY YOU MIGHT SEE AVIARIES FOR THE BIRDS, AND ALSO REPTILE HOUSES OR INSECTARIUMS FOR THE CREEPY CRAWLIES.  

IN GERMANY, AN EXOTIC ANIMAL IMPORTER BY THE NAME OF CARL HEGENBECK, STARTED TO CREATE MORE NATURAL HABITATS FOR ANIMALS, COMPLETE WITH CAGES, GLASS ENCLOSURES, AND MOATS, TO PROTECT THE ANIMALS AND VISITORS.  BEFORE HE DID THIS, BACK IN 1907, IT WASN’T UNCOMMON FOR ZOO ANIMALS OR VISITORS TO GET HURT BECAUSE THERE WASN’T MUCH SEPARATING THE TWO.  

THESE DAYS, MANY ZOOS ARE FOCUSED ON THE PROTECTION OF THE ANIMALS INSIDE THE ZOO, AS WELL AS THE CONSERVATION OF ANIMALS TO AVOID EXTINCTION.  

OKAY, NOW THAT I’VE SHARED SOME OF THE BACK STORY ON ZOOS AND THE CONTROVERSY BEHIND WHETHER THEY SHOULD EXIST, IT’S TIME TO START ROUND ONE OF THE DEBATE.  OLIVIA, WHY SHOULD ZOOS EXIST?

O:  ZOOS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT FOR EDUCATION.  THERE ARE 241 ZOOS IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THOSE ZOOS BRING IN OVER 181 MILLION VISITORS A YEAR.  MORE PEOPLE VISIT ZOOS EVERY YEAR THAN GO TO MLB, NBA, NFL, AND NHL GAMES COMBINED.  THOSE FOUR MAJOR PROFESSIONAL SPORTS DRAW A COMBINED 131 MILLION FANS PER YEAR, 50 MILLION LESS THAN ZOOS.  

PEOPLE WHO VISIT ZOOS LEARN LOTS ABOUT THE ANIMALS AND ABOUT BIODIVERSITY, WHICH IS THE WAY THAT ALL OF THE ANIMALS COME TOGETHER IN SUCH A BEAUTIFUL VARIETY.  IF NOT FOR ZOOS, PEOPLE WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO SEE MAJESTIC ANIMALS, SUCH AS LIONS, AND TIGERS, AND BEARS, OH MY!  AND ELEPHANTS AND GIRAFFES TOO!  AND GUESS WHAT?  IF YOU DON’T GET AN OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THOSE ANIMALS IN PERSON, IT WILL BE HARDER FOR YOU TO GROW AN ATTACHMENT TO THEM.  WITHOUT THAT ATTACHMENT, NOT AS MUCH MONEY WOULD BE DONATED TO THE ZOOS AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE MAKING AN EFFORT TO PREVENT ANIMALS FROM GOING EXTINCT.    

N:  ZOOS ARE EDUCATIONAL, BUT THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THEY GET PEOPLE TO PROTECT ANIMALS.  A FEW STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT ZOOS OR AQUARIUMS ACTUALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO HELP ANIMALS.  BESIDES, WHY CAN’T PEOPLE LEARN ABOUT ANIMALS THROUGH TV SHOWS LIKE PLANET EARTH?  PLANET EARTH IS AN INCREDIBLE SHOW THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SEE AMAZING ANIMALS, IN THEIR NATURAL HABITATS, FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR COUCH.  NO NEED TO TAKE A BUNCH OF ANIMALS AND PUT THEM IN CAGES.  YOU DON’T NEED TO GO TO A ZOO AND SEE ANIMALS UP CLOSE TO BE INTERESTED IN THEM AND WANT TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THEM.  I’M REALLY INTERESTED IN DINOSAURS AND I’VE NEVER SEEN A DINOSAUR AT THE ZOO.  THEY HAVEN’T EVEN EXISTED IN HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS. 

***BELL RINGS***

D:  ROUND ONE IS OVER.  WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?  SHOULD ZOOS EXIST?  HAS YOUR OPINION CHANGED, EVEN A LITTLE BIT, AFTER HEARING FROM OLIVIA AND NOAH?  WELL, WE’RE NOT DONE YET.  ROUND TWO OF THREE IS ABOUT TO BEGIN.  NOAH, YOU’RE UP FIRST THIS TIME.

N:  OKAY, I LOVE VISITING ZOOS AND I’M SURE LOTS OF PEOPLE ENJOY GOING TO ZOOS, BUT WHAT’S IT LIKE FOR ANIMALS?  LOTS OF STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT BEING IN A ZOO IS BAD FOR THE HEALTH OF SOME ANIMALS BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY TO COPY THE ENVIRONMENT AND DIET THAT THE ANIMALS WOULD HAVE IN THE WILD.  ONE STUDY SHOWS THAT MANY ZOOS KEPT ANIMALS SUCH AS BEARS, CHEETAHS, AND LIONS IN AREAS THAT WERE WAY TOO SMALL, WHICH MADE THEM GET SICK.  

HERE’S A CRAZY STATISTIC.  ABOUT 70% OF ADULT MALE GORILLAS IN AMERICAN ZOOS HAVE HEART DISEASE.  ALMOST NO ADULT MALE GORILLAS IN THE WILD HAVE HEART DISEASE.  THAT COULD BE FROM NOT ENOUGH EXERCISE, OR EVEN FROM A CHANGE IN FOOD.  CHECK THIS OUT.  THERE WAS A GORILLA AT THE BRONX ZOO BY THE NAME OF MADAME NINGO.  SHE WAS THE FIRST GORILLA TO ARRIVE IN THE UNITED STATES, ALL THE WAY BACK IN 1911.  SHE WAS FED HOT FOOD AND COOKED MEAT, BUT HERE’S THE PROBLEM.  GORILLAS ARE HERBIVORES AND DON’T EAT MEAT.  

THEN THERE ARE ELEPHANTS.  ELEPHANTS IN THE WILD LIVE A LOT LONGER THAN ELEPHANTS IN CAPTIVITY.  THE AVERAGE LIFE OF AN ASIAN ELEPHANT IS 41.7 YEARS IN THE WILD AND ONLY 18.9 YEARS IN CAPTIVITY.  FOR AFRICAN ELEPHANTS, IT’S 35.8 YEARS IN THE WILD, COMPARED TO 16.9 YEARS IN CAPTIVITY.  THAT’S A HUGE DIFFERENCE.  THE PHILADELPHIA ZOO THAT WE LOVE TO GO TO USED TO HAVE ELEPHANTS, UNTIL THERE WAS A LOT OF PRESSURE TO MOVE THEM SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE PEOPLE DIDN’T BELIEVE THAT THEY HAD ENOUGH SPACE IN THEIR ENCLOSURE.  THAT’S WHY, AFTER HAVING ELEPHANTS FOR 132 YEARS, YOU CAN NO LONGER FIND ELEPHANTS AT THE PHILADELPHIA ZOO.  

O:  WELL, THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO THIS COIN.  ZOOS HAVE BEEN REALLY IMPORTANT IN PROTECTING SO MANY ANIMALS.  BELLINGER RIVER SNAPPING TURTLES, EASTERN BONGOS, GOLDEN LION TAMARINS (WHICH ARE ADORABLE BY THE WAY), AND PANAMANIAN GOLDEN FROGS ARE EXAMPLES OF ANIMALS THAT WOUDN’T EXIST ANY MORE IF NOT FOR THE HARD WORK DONE BY ZOOS.  

AS WE RECORD THIS EPISODE, ZOOS AROUND THE WORLD ARE WORKING TO SAVE OTHER ANIMALS THAT ARE IN DANGER OF DISAPPEARING, LIKE POLAR BEARS AND TIGERS.  THEY ARE ALSO PROTECTING RHINOS FROM POACHERS, AND BEES AND BUTTERFLIES, WHOSE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN DECLINING FOR DECADES.  

HERE’S AN EXAMPLE OF AMAZING WORK DONE TO SAVE AN ANIMAL IN DANGER OF EXTINCTION.  THERE WERE ONLY 9 CALIFORNIA CONDORS IN THE WILD IN 1985.  THE SAN DIEGO AND LOS ANGELAS ZOOS WORKED TOGETHER TO PROTECT THEM.  WITHIN 30 YEARS, THEIR NUMBERS WERE UP TO 276 IN THE WILD AND 170 IN CAPTIVITY.  THAT WOULDN’T HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT THE CONSERVATION EFFORTS OF TWO ZOOS IN CALIFORNIA.  

***BELL RINGS***

D:  THAT SOUND MEANS THE END OF ROUND TWO.  THERE IS ONLY ENOUGH TIME FOR NOAH AND OLIVIA TO MAKE CLOSING ARGUMENTS.  THAT’S ONE MORE CHANCE FOR THEM TO CONVINCE YOU THAT THEY ARE RIGHT, AND THEY ONLY HAVE ONE MINUTE EACH TO MAKE THEIR POINT.  WE SPUN A WHEEL TO SEE WHO GOES FIRST WITH CLOSING ARGUMENTS.  UP FIRST IS OLIVIA.  YOU HAVE 60 SECONDS, AND NO MORE, TO LET EVERYONE KNOW WHY ZOOS SHOULD EXIST, AND THE CLOCK STARTS NOW.

O:  ZOOS ARE EDUCATIONAL, THEY ARE FUN FOR FAMILIES TO VISIT, AND THEY ARE GREAT FOR THE PROTECTION AND CARE OF ANIMALS.  SURE, THERE ARE RARE CASES OF ANIMALS NOT GETTING PERFECT CARE AT ZOOS, BUT BY AND LARGE, ZOOS ARE VERY GOOD FOR ANIMALS, AND ARE A BIG REASON THAT MANY ANIMALS STILL EXIST.  

N:  ANIMALS IN CAPTIVITY CAN’T POSSIBLY BE AS HAPPY AS ANIMALS IN THE WILD.  IMAGINE BEING STUCK IN A SMALL SPACE FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.  IT MUST BE VERY FRUSTRATING FOR THE ANIMALS.  EVEN THOUGH MANY ZOOS DO GREAT WORK, ZOO ANIMALS ARE OFTEN LESS HEALTHY AND LESS HAPPY THAN WILD ANIMALS.  THERE ARE OTHER PLACES TO SEE UNIQUE ANIMALS THAT AREN’T ZOOS.  THOSE PLACES INCLUDE SAFARI PARKS, WHICH ALLOW YOU TO DRIVE THROUGH A LARGE PARK WHERE ANIMALS ARE MOVING AROUND FREELY, AND WILDLIFE SANCTUARIES, WHERE ANIMALS CAN LIVE AND BE PROTECTED FROM DANGER THAT MIGHT COME FROM HUMANS OR OTHER ANIMALS.

***BELL RINGS***

D:  WOW… THAT WAS INTENSE.  GREAT JOB OLIVIA AND NOAH.  ALRIGHT LISTENERS, WHAT DO YOU THINK?  SHOULD ZOOS EXIST?  IT’S A VERY INTERESTING DEBATE WITH LOTS OF GOOD POINTS ON BOTH SIDES.  WELL, WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.  IF YOU CHECK OUT THE EPISODE NOTES, YOU WILL FIND A LINK TO A SUPER QUICK SURVEY THAT SHOULD ONLY TAKE A MINUTE OR TWO TO COMPLETE.  JUST LET US KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND TELL US WHETHER YOU THINK ZOOS SHOULD EXIST.  IF YOU’RE INTERESTED, THERE IS EVEN A SPACE TO LET US KNOW WHY YOU FEEL THE WAY YOU DO, AND WE ARE GOING TO SHARE THE RESULTS OF THE POLL, AND SOME OF OUR FAVORITE COMMENTS IN THE NEXT EPISODE.  ALSO, IF THERE IS AN INTERESTING AND EDUCATIONAL TOPIC YOU WOULD LIKE OLIVIA AND NOAH TO DEBATE, THERE IS A SPACE ON THE FORM FOR YOU TO SHARE DEBATE TOPICS WITH US.  FOR OUR PATREON SUPPORTERS, YOU WILL HAVE AN EXTRA MINI-EPISODE ON THIS TOPIC FOR YOU TO ENJOY, WITH ME AND THE KIDS DISCUSSING THE TOPIC A BIT MORE.  IF YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW TO SUPPORT THE PODCAST ON PATREON, THOSE DETAILS CAN ALSO BE FOUND IN THE EPISODE NOTES.  

O:  A BIG THANKS TO OUR NEWEST PATREON SUPPORTERS, JAMAICA T., ELIZABETH W., KATIE A., AND SEJAL M.  

D:  THANK YOU TO JAMAICA, ELIZABETH, KATIE, AND SEJAL.  OKAY EVERYONE, DON’T FORGET TO FILL OUT A SURVEY.  THEY NEED TO BE COMPLETED BY SUNDAY, JANUARY 14TH AND OUR NEXT EPISODE WILL BE RELEASED ON SUNDAY, JANUARY 21ST.  IN THAT EPISODE, OLIVIA AND NOAH WILL DEBATE WHETHER JUNK FOOD SHOULD BE ALLOWED IN SCHOOL CAFETERIAS.  AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LISTENING TO OLIVIA AND NOAH DEBATE IN ***THE GREAT SIBLING SHOWDOWN***